Vehicle Development guidelines....

[ProtoDroidBot]

Let me check to see if it is possible to make hoverboard able to use hand weapons. Not sure how badly this will mess up the balancing though. :<

[pooty]

Want to discuss more guidelines around anti-air limits. We want to keep the OP stuff to a minimum... and balanced.

So for anti-air we have:
Damage is straight up points, momementum can impact damage, Range is in UU
Keep in mind for vehicles embedded in the map can vary, part of the reason we pulled them in to files so that they are standardized.
Confirmed:
Avril - 200 pts
Rail Tank one shot, 350 damage, 50000 momentum, 20000 Range, 1 / 2.5s
Dark Rail Tank, same as RailTank
HellHound TwinBeams, 300 damage, 150000 momentum, 20000 Range, 1 / 2.5s (fires faster at reduced damage)
Alligator TwinBeams, 300 damage, 150000 momentum, 20000 Range, 1 / 3s (fires faster at reduced damage)
Ballista TwinBeams, 300 damage, 150000 momentum, 23000 Range, 1 / 3s (fires faster at reduced damage)

Lasers
Damage = (DamageMin + Rand(DamageMax - DamageMin));

KingHellHound 20-22 Damage, 100 momentum, Range 80000, 5.55 beams/s, ~115 pts/s
Armadillio aka Troop Carrier: 50-70 Damage, 1 momentum (default for Weapon),Range 20000, 5 beams/s, ~300 pts/s
Hurricane, 35-55, 1 Momentum, Range 20000, 5 beams/s, 280 pts/s
Mino Lasers. 20-20, 500 momentum, Range 80000, 5.55 beams/s, 111 pts/s

Miniguns
Damage = (DamageMin + Rand(DamageMax - DamageMin));
(I need to double check, I need to account for tick rate..)
Mino MiniGun 19-19, 1 Momentum, Range 15000, 10 bullets/s, ~190 pts/s
Badger MiniGun 15-15, 1 Momentum, Range 15000, 10/s, ~150 pts/s
Goliath/II Turret Minigun, 17-17, 1 Momentum, Range 15000 (GI), 28672 (G2), 10/s, ~170 pts/s

Basilisk Main fire: TBD, has to do with tick rate..


Battery - 250? + some extra shocks on the way in?


Later I'll verify more later numbers above are code verified. but we can set an upper limit on damage per sec, for those. Mostly I think the minigun/lasers are pretty good now, as are most others.... Railtank being king of the hill, and make sure nothing goes over it.

Now Projectiles are different matter, eg. Goliath/mino shots etc. As they are independent projectiles once fire vs. hit scans, and the limits don't apply because of the aiming involved. Meaning hitting nimble fliers in GoliathII is much harder than instant twin beams.

I don't see any need to increase anything, just documenting for any future changes.

So the range / heavy tank discussion as well as much --- there's too many OP vehicles has got me thinking.

We spent a good amount of time on Ranges, so I think that's good.
Miniguns = 15000
Laser = 20000
Only select vehicles effective past 20000 with hit scan.
Upper limit on projectiles = 30000, with many shorter.


But never really finished damage discussion.

I think we should set some upper limits. Not sure what those are.
But some guidelines:
- Reduce spammy vehicles (homing rockets like Dragon/Alt-fire hurricane, should get a count down like the wraith, so you can spam a burst but then have to wait to "reload")
- Reduce/Balance many of the vehicles. This is tricky though, Omega is devastating in the right circumstance, out in the open its easily killed by other flyers or anti-air. A couple of examples come to mind:
- Flare Raptor has too much health (500)
- Aurora/SkyMiner has too much health (400), especially with the combo bomb wrecking just about anything.
- No one should have 900+ point badger. (Flame/Fire/Bio/Ion/Link) (800+ and above are big tanks, not fast moving, agile badgers). Want 1000 pts health drive a tank. We can make one off exceptions, I think Link Badger is one of those, simply because I'll call it iconic. But the rest. Nope.

The other thing is the link vehicles for example do MORE damage to other vehicles than to infantry. This give you a chance on foot. For example, Heavy LInk Tank Plasma does 85 to foot soldier, but 106.25 to vehicles. I think this helps give a good balance so you can work on foot vs. just getting one shotted all the time. Now keep in mind many tanks can and should be able to wipe out infantry (think Goliath), but this might be a concept worth thinking through.

I think the other thing is damage resistance/vulnerabilty, eg. bio goo on mino, some vehicles can have resistance to specific damages, eg. Heavy Tank takes 50% from Mino shot -- the only vehicle besides MAS/Mino that doesn't get one shotted by mino.

Thoughts?

[pooty]

Bringing back this, since there was some discussion about things being to OP and I tend to agree.

As stated below we've more less standardized ranges.

But Damage is another matter. Its pretty helpful now that we have the Damage done shown in game, you can see which things do a shit ton of damage.

I am happy to adjust the vehicles but the whole point of this thread was what's standards....for Damage and Health.

For Health I think:
Manta types 200-325
Raptor types 250-375
Scorps 200-400
Badgers 600-700 (Sorry but no point to a 900 point badger)
Trucks 500-700
Base Tanks 650-900 (Goliath is 800)
Heavy/Big Tanks (1250-2000)
MAS (3000-6500) (Kraken at 10000 is just too much).

But all that depends on Damage done.
I've started spreadsheet on Damage.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

I think most vehicles should leverage the VehicleDamageMultiplier. This allows vehicle weapons to do less to players/more to vehicles. So think tank shell that does 300, maybe it only does 150 to player (VDM=2). This gives players on foot more of a chance...
For example Centaur, does 25 pts per hit on players, but 37 on vehicles.

See post below. We should set some limits on Damage
Miniguns
Lasers
Tank Shells
There's always the odd ball weapon like Dark Neptys (black hole tank), or the WebCaster/Tick Scorp web, but often those have to be deployed/shot "just right"

I also wouldn't mind nerfing the spammy shit like Hurricane rockets, dragon rocket, nuke tank rockets etc.. make them work more like the Wraith where you get a certain number then firing slows and it does a "reload". It eliminates the sit and spam...better gameplay and less stress on the server.

[YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH]

Good idea. I think some things should always be able to one-shot infantry though. Badger 2nd seat, hammerhead, tank primary fires come to mind.

[pooty]

Yes, some of the larger vehicles, especially the projectiles/ion/levi cannons, will be lethal to infantry even with Keg/shield combos. But you shouldn't die < 1s from lasers or miniguns...

Some of the explosion types also do less damage the farther away you are (eg. Altfire fire tank, Vampire tank blast, Lamprey blast) so if you dodge-jump away you'll take less damage than a direct hit